In this episode of Building Great Sales Teams we are joined by Brian Alexander. Brian is an author as well as a consultant specializing in sales management and talent optimization. We talk targeted hiring, virtual sales teams and personal optimization!
Brian Alexander is a successful entrepreneur, leadership consultant, and business coach who spent 7 years as a high performer in the corporate world before pursuing his passion for entrepreneurship. With over 1000 hours of business coaching, Brian is an expert in leadership, talent optimization, building winning teams, and sales management.
Brian is the President of Expressing the Genius Within, his own talent optimization consulting company, and also works as a 1099 Sales Management Consultant for a laser company in the dentistry industry. He is in the process of publishing his new book, "How to Succeed in Spite of Yourself - The Ultimate Guide to Leadership Through Self-Awareness," which provides valuable insights on developing self-awareness and overcoming common challenges in leadership.
Connect with Brian
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Speaker 1
Great experiences, build great leaders. Great leaders, build great teams. This is building great sales teams.
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Speaker 2
All right, guys, welcome back to building great sales teams. I got a good one for you guys today. I have been following this man for about a year. I've had several connection calls with him and we just geeked out on all things sales, management and talent acquisition. So I wanted to bring him on the show so you guys could experience a little bit of his genius.
00:00:55:04 - 00:01:12:36
Speaker 2
I have with me today Bryan Alexander. He's a sales management consultant as well as he's got a talent optimization company called Expressing the Genius Within. And they use predictive index to hire the right talent for the right seat. So naturally, I had to have him on the show. Bryan, thanks for joining us.
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Speaker 3
Thanks for having me. That intro has me fired up.
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Speaker 2
Awesome, man. You know, we get that a lot around here. Well, know, we've invested in it. You know what I mean? As as all things. When you have intention with it, you know what I mean? You typically get a good response from it, right?
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Speaker 3
Right, right, Right. I like it.
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Speaker 2
So I was cyberstalking you earlier and I noticed that you had a post about homeschooling. So did you and your your family do your homeschool?
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Speaker 3
We do. I have a eight year old daughter and a four year old daughter turning five actually, in April. And we have homeschooled from the beginning just kind of set out to do it and fortunately enough, have built a life to be able to support that. My wife is full time homeschooling mom and CEO of the household, so we have our roles carved out for us and we're we're happy.
00:02:07:34 - 00:02:12:28
Speaker 3
And I'm not going to say it's the easiest thing to do, but it's the most rewarding for sure.
00:02:13:21 - 00:02:26:00
Speaker 2
I love it, and I love it because, you know, my wife was a teacher for a long time, and I don't know if you know this, but just four months ago, she started her own homeschool tutoring service.
00:02:26:27 - 00:02:26:53
Speaker 3
Okay.
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Speaker 2
So she has a brick and mortar location. And if students are struggling in a particular area, they'll they'll bring them into her brick and mortar location. And then she'll she'll she'll tutor him. And, you know, she's got her masters in math instruction and curriculum. And so, like, that's her zone of genius, I guess you could say.
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Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:02:50:04 - 00:03:11:09
Speaker 2
It's been going really well. She paid herself for the first time this month, so that was pretty cool to see her go from like four months ago. Not even having a location to like. I think she's got like 12 clients right now, roughly in there on, you know, weekly schedules, weekly tutoring schedules. And she's building a little homeschool community, you know, within her group.
00:03:11:09 - 00:03:28:48
Speaker 2
And she has like these events for holidays and stuff like that for them to get out of the house and just come hang out and play and all that good stuff. So it's a it's been interesting seeing that dynamic because our our kids have always been in public school, you know, and because she was the teacher at the school.
00:03:28:55 - 00:03:41:27
Speaker 2
So like, naturally they went wherever she went and then she got to spend time with them every day in between breaks and lunch and recess and whatever. And so but now, you know, she started her own business doing that.
00:03:42:09 - 00:04:08:18
Speaker 3
That's amazing. There's going to be a huge demand for that within the next five years. And so I think more and more parents are re evaluating who they're allowing to raise their children and, you know, let's face it, your children are being indoctrinated by somebody. Yeah, they're being instilled. And it's as if they're away from the parents for 8 hours a day.
00:04:08:45 - 00:04:31:19
Speaker 3
You get better. Pray to God that you have great teachers. But, you know, even if your teachers are great, you kind of have the blind leading the blind in terms of the children raising the children. And I choose to you know, I think take the harder path and let's let's homeschool the girls, build the values we want, teach them what we feel is going to be useful and necessary.
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Speaker 3
And but just like business coaches, you know, we use a ton of different co-ops and people are like, how are you going to socialize your children? Like they're not dogs.
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Speaker 2
As.
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Speaker 3
Dogs. You know, it's there's plenty of things to do. There's more and more home and co-ops, more people to be resources. That's another objection we get is like you never went to school to become a teacher. What makes you think you're equipped to be able to do that? I'm like, Well, nobody cares about my children more than me and my wife, and I'm resourceful.
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Speaker 3
I'm going to find people who can help me and I'm going to I'm going to facilitate their education, but I'm not one necessarily doing all the work. Right. Right.
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Speaker 2
Not necessarily right in the curriculum. You're just executing their curriculum, you know?
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Speaker 3
Exactly.
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Speaker 2
And there is a ton of resources. My wife's been to the, you know, the conferences that they have. And, you know, she's she's now in that community. She's in the Facebook groups. And they're all using different resources that are built for homeschool or built classroom and adapted to homeschool. And so, you know, it's it's like everything else, like you can you can dive into it and learn it.
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Speaker 2
And like you said, like your wife's dedicated to it. You know, I'm saying like, that's her you know, that's her full time job right now is to educate and to care for the kids during the day. And so nobody's going to be better at that job, you know? Right. And nobody can be more willing to say, hey, I need help.
00:06:02:16 - 00:06:20:38
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? Because she doesn't want to sacrifice her kids education, you know? So, like, if she does, then she's going to reach out for those resources, those groups, those co-ops. You know, now, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. And so that's one of the things I've realized, too, about the socialization piece, like living out in the country now.
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Speaker 2
You know, our kids are making friends with, you know, these kids that have lived out there their whole lives. And, you know, there's acres between houses. So it's not like you can just go knock on your friend's door, you know what I'm saying? Without going through a field or down a very sketchy country road, you know, I'm saying.
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Speaker 2
So we don't just let our kids like, ride around the neighborhood, right? Because there's loose dogs. Like there's also issues with, you know, human trafficking and stuff like that. Right. You know, that happens out there in the country. So it's like it's more of a plan thing, you know? So when you think about it like it's a we meet these kids and they're like, yes, sir.
00:06:59:27 - 00:07:16:35
Speaker 2
Yes, ma'am. They have great manners and everything. And I'm like, it's because they're constantly exposed to their parents and other friends. You know, I'm saying their parents are instilling that in them and making that effort. And then, yeah, they are part of traditional homes where, you know, dad's going out working, making the bacon, and then mom staying home with the kids.
00:07:16:58 - 00:07:39:09
Speaker 2
And so even if they're not in public school, they're getting that education, that inductor is Asian and they are they're way more well-behaved than my kids in terms of manners and in terms of, you know, how they treat others, you know? And so I have to work harder because I'm working against the public school system or I'm working against their friends and I'm teaching them, you know, different stuff.
00:07:39:09 - 00:07:51:01
Speaker 2
And and so, like, it is it's a it's a challenge for sure, you know? And I know that's not necessarily what this show is about, but, you know, we're all about leadership. And leadership starts in the home, right? So.
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Speaker 3
That's right. I don't want to.
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Speaker 2
Get too too far off track here.
00:07:55:06 - 00:08:11:49
Speaker 3
So. Yeah, but but you're right. We are leaders. I don't care if you're a CEO or a parent or a friend or a brother or a dad. We're either leading ourselves or leading other people. And, you know, you have to be able to lead yourself to be able to lead other people.
00:08:12:52 - 00:08:25:15
Speaker 2
On a percent. So speaking of being leaders, you lead a sales team right now. Can you kind of walk us through what the set up is? Is it all virtual and how you got into that role that you have right now?
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Speaker 3
Yeah, So I actually I owned a couple of micro gyms for about a decade and I did business coaching for other micro gyms for, let's see, about five years toward the tail end of the ten years of owning gyms. And I liked it a lot. I loved helping gym owners. Gym owners are terrible business people. You know, they lot and they got into the business of owning a gym because they want it to change lives.
00:08:54:27 - 00:09:24:01
Speaker 3
But nobody has ever taught them anything about business. So we were there to teach them systems, processes, you know, a framework to follow for their business. So they didn't have a job. They actually had, you know, an asset or a business to be proud of. So it did that for a while and we kept running into kind of the same problems of, you know, they would we would have issues with with some of the the systems that we were teaching and they would have issues.
00:09:24:36 - 00:09:45:55
Speaker 3
And it ended up being that, you know, I fell in love with the people, parts of the systems and processes had to happen. But the people part of it was really what intrigued me, like putting the right people into the right seats to thrive in that kind of is going to bleed into that. The consulting company that I started, yeah, outside of sales management, but it kind of all blends together.
00:09:46:35 - 00:09:55:30
Speaker 3
I ended up selling my gym in January of 2020, right before the madness. I stopped doing business coaching and I.
00:09:55:30 - 00:09:59:43
Speaker 2
Kind of, you know, something we didn't know. Like two months later.
00:10:00:52 - 00:10:30:01
Speaker 3
When I was due, I had I had a string of bad decisions and that was one of the best decisions. Awesome. I was do let's just put it that way. But so, you know, I sold the gym. I stopped doing the business consulting for the gyms. I wanted to kind of play in a bigger pond, and I started a consulting company for talent optimization, helping companies hired the right people into the right seats, using behavioral data, scientifically validated behavioral assessments.
00:10:30:37 - 00:10:48:39
Speaker 3
And I was talking to a friend of mine, and this is where it bleeds back into building a sales team. It was like, what are you going to do? You know, like you just sell the gym longtime friend and you know, you just sell the gym. I'm like, Look, we made money selling the gym. I don't have to do anything right now that I have no idea what I want to do.
00:10:49:15 - 00:11:07:28
Speaker 3
I know how to build my own company. And, you know, that takes a lot of effort, energy and hard work. And he's like, well, you know, why don't you start with, you know, helping my my company? And he told me finally what he did. He had told me before, but I never really paid attention to him. Yeah, I work for this laser company, Brain Dentistry.
00:11:07:46 - 00:11:29:15
Speaker 3
We're kind of like the Lasik for gum surgery, and we basically kind of help people with all of the same health problems that you helped in the gym by from a gum disease standpoint. And I'm like, whatever. Why don't you help me with your assessments? Because I know they're looking at hiring. Why don't you help me with that kind of stuff?
00:11:29:15 - 00:11:49:26
Speaker 3
And we can see if, you know, there's a fit where I can help you get into this company and do that. And the more we kind of part is like, you know, really there's an opening in New York. I think actually the more I talk to you, the more I think you'd be really good at this. And it's entrepreneurial all and, you know, started off all the benefits he took two months out of the year sabbatical.
00:11:49:42 - 00:12:06:55
Speaker 3
I love, you know, kind of a work life balance at that point, especially after being an entrepreneur and, you know, not really having much of it. And, you know, I just ended up saying, you know, I started right before the lockdowns, I started right during COVID. I'm like, you know what? I'll give it a shot. And it happened.
00:12:08:07 - 00:12:32:36
Speaker 3
The whole business model changed, the whole world changed, did a lot of virtual appointments. I was drinking from a fire hole, was kind of learning dentistry and laser physics. The benefit, though, was because we went virtual The volume of calls and webinars that we hosted and presentations that we did virtually was like ten times the normal amount. Yeah.
00:12:32:36 - 00:12:58:53
Speaker 3
So I was able to kind of learn at a very fast clip because of the volume that I was exposed. And after the first year, you know, we did really well, crushed it in, in our directors like, look, I want to build out a sales team, but people that might be good at this and like, look, gym owners, we've got gym owners, they're entrepreneurial, they have their system, personal systems nailed in.
00:13:00:01 - 00:13:17:31
Speaker 3
You know, they're hard workers. They have the entrepreneurial grit and behavioral assessments. I can help you find more of people like me. So I kind of married those two things and then took my experience with coaching gym owners. And I called kind of my top gym owners in different regions. I'm like, Look how.
00:13:17:33 - 00:13:20:42
Speaker 2
Much all their other businesses. We're doing this right now.
00:13:20:42 - 00:13:41:38
Speaker 3
Yet they were all, Yeah, exactly. And gym ownership is exhausting to begin with. It's it's a lot of emotional energy And then with, you know in addition to time because you have personal relationships with your ten coaches I mean 300 members So you know, I was able to kind of talk to a lot of them. I got seven.
00:13:41:38 - 00:14:07:33
Speaker 3
I built a team of seven or eight gym owners in the whole organization and underneath me to do what I did and replicate the success that we saw in my direct this, you know, in the ten years prior to me joining, we scaled it, we systemized everything. And, you know, we grew the company from like 7 million in 2019 before I started until 2 million last year, which is, you know, it's not huge, but it's it's pretty impressive.
00:14:08:27 - 00:14:36:12
Speaker 2
That's massive, you know. And what I love about that is, you know, so many so many people are looking for the the systemized and the consistent fix. Right. When there's opportunities in the way markets change and there's opportunities and niches, you know, they can go after and capitalize on those like in your case, it was, you know, you knew the gym, the gym business was going downhill because of COVID and it was going to be in the gutter for at least a couple of years.
00:14:36:12 - 00:15:04:40
Speaker 2
Right. Right. And so you took advantage of that and you had these motivated, entrepreneurial minded people that needed the gap closed in the meantime. And so you were able to recruit a team of gym owners to sell dental laser equipment. I mean, if if that's not like square peg round hole, you know, from outside looking in. But I feel like, you know, and I don't want to get too into this yet because I do want to talk about some sales management stuff.
00:15:04:40 - 00:15:26:48
Speaker 2
But I feel like because of your talent optimization background, you were able to recognize, Hey, these are the same people. These are people that we need to go after. This is the profile, right? So going into the sales management piece currently with your team, do you have so it's all remote management remote team. You guys are meeting in person ever.
00:15:26:48 - 00:15:57:12
Speaker 3
We had our very first sales summit last two weeks ago actually, when we all got together with our headquarters, you know, the founders of the company. But that really hasn't happened for like a decade prior to us being there. So, you know, you're right. It's it's 100% remote. You're right. As both a director and as an actual 1089 consultant, of course, you know, there's a lot of interaction virtually.
00:15:57:12 - 00:16:09:34
Speaker 3
And we meet up with them like we invite doctors and I go and support my reps and we see each other once in a while, but it's usually separately and kind of compartmentalize.
00:16:09:34 - 00:16:21:01
Speaker 2
Right? So what are you doing to manage that team remotely? Is there a cadence? You have a weekly sales meeting, Is there a daily check in? You know, can you walk us through some of those systems that you have in place?
00:16:21:37 - 00:16:49:48
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, tools, Asana and Slack are some of the big tools that we use to manage collaboration, communication, things of that nature on a non-negotiable weekly Monday morning kick off. No matter what with my sales team, I love that address. Any challenge is I mean this organization is it's kind of like battling lightning and organized chaos, right?
00:16:49:48 - 00:17:08:38
Speaker 3
Like when I came in, there was no no actual concrete US ops or systems. Right. And then add in the remote piece, it makes it a lot more challenging. You know, you can send as many emails as you want to. Doesn't mean they've read them or they've had time to really understand them or even work on them. Right?
00:17:08:38 - 00:17:31:20
Speaker 3
So that Monday morning mandatory kickoff is is huge, not only to just cross off items that are outstanding, but also just be a sounding board in your group for your team members to say, hey, you know, I'm having a hard time here. What's working for you? Three or four or five people. So that works really well. I would never change that.
00:17:32:15 - 00:17:54:34
Speaker 3
And outside of that, I mean, you know, I'm constantly talking with these guys and one girl, right? And my team every day I'm available to help them close. Right. Whatever the case is, they call me, they have a prospect on the phone. I'm there for them no matter what, you know, 7:00, 6:00 in the morning, 7:00 at night.
00:17:54:34 - 00:17:58:49
Speaker 3
My whole job is to support them and do the best I can with that.
00:17:59:58 - 00:18:30:05
Speaker 2
So most sales teams will track, you know, units of sales, you know, dollars, you know, amount of sales, you know, those top line metrics, you know, maybe even gross revenue. But what are you guys tracking inside the business in terms of like conversion rates? You know, dollar per sale? Or what are those metrics that kind of like if you had a dashboard in front of you that you have on that dashboard and you're on top of with their team.
00:18:30:05 - 00:18:50:25
Speaker 3
The big one is, believe it or not, it's not as much, you know, 50 calls, X, Y and Z because it is it's it's a lot more, I would say, looking at the habits that will lead to success. So what are those KPIs going.
00:18:50:25 - 00:18:54:18
Speaker 2
Back even further? Yeah, again, controllable actions. Okay.
00:18:54:39 - 00:19:30:23
Speaker 3
We do it because we know those actions are going to lead to the outcomes. So the big one we look at is researching 50 new doctrines. We micro target a specific geographic area, say who are we'll research individually and say who are the 50 best prospects in that little area. We'll pick you know, let's say it's Alpharetta, Georgia, and we'll take a little radius clip of that and we'll do our research from there, pick our top 50 opportunities that we're own know we're putting our stake in it.
00:19:30:45 - 00:19:51:28
Speaker 3
Who are we going to spend all the time, energy, effort and money on in order to yield the best results? So we do that on a weekly basis. And then really, we're hitting research for cell phones. So using a tool called like Heartbeat I there's a lot of other ones out there. If you're grabbing cell phones because you know, emails that kind of get.
00:19:51:55 - 00:19:54:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's on its last legs right.
00:19:54:23 - 00:20:14:56
Speaker 2
It's it's automated so like it's not dead in terms of you know, you can't get leads from it. It's dead in terms of the actual conversion rate of, you know, you're gonna need a thousand emails to make one so. Right. Yeah. 100%. No, I'm with you there. So what are you all doing on the tech side? Are you all texting their personal cell phones or are these the doctors or like the gatekeepers or.
00:20:15:19 - 00:20:38:49
Speaker 3
No, you have to go straight to the doctor. We are only the gatekeeper at all costs. We don't even play in that realm in outer space. The doctor is the decision maker and what we do is is really beneficial not only for the patient because it's like, you know, we saw the LASIK of gum surgery, right? So like taking a scalpel to your eye for better vision and like, nobody does that anymore.
00:20:39:05 - 00:21:00:14
Speaker 3
And that is the norm that the standard is very often it's a scalpel and it's like, you know, stitches and it's it's like barbaric, Right? What we do is none of that. No stitches, no scalpel. It's incredible. But the doctor also makes a lot of money with that, right? It costs 100 grand. But that the return on investment on this is incredible.
00:21:00:48 - 00:21:17:11
Speaker 2
So you guys picked the right product. You know, so many you know, I come across them in salespeople and they tell me about their product and how they're struggling to sell it and everything. And it's like at some point it's not about you and your systems and your talent and your skills. Sometimes you're just selling the wrong product.
00:21:17:11 - 00:21:33:57
Speaker 2
The wrong product still exists, you know what I mean? Yeah. So you may need to sell something that you believe a little more in. You know, you can hear it in their voice when they're convicted on it, you know. Right. The very fact that we're talking about, you know, scalpel versus laser and dental, you know, means that you believe in the product that you're selling.
00:21:33:57 - 00:21:40:49
Speaker 3
So it's why I never would have carved this little path out for myself. But selling a laser in dentistry. Right.
00:21:41:13 - 00:21:51:19
Speaker 2
I love it. I love it, though. It's one of those things. It's like you just have a barometer for it. You know, when you hear somebody talking about a product, you're like, Man, I could sell the crap out of that, you know, so, Well.
00:21:51:45 - 00:21:52:06
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:21:53:15 - 00:22:07:10
Speaker 2
But anyways, let's, let's go into talent optimization. So one of the biggest questions I get and it's typically for my clients that have one salesperson or haven't hired that salesperson yet, is like, how do I find the right people? So how would you answer that question?
00:22:08:25 - 00:22:36:50
Speaker 3
I would say, no matter how small you are measured, twice and cut once, and it's easier to do it as you're making your first step than it is to reverse the damage you've done by making 100 steps. Right? What we do is we we really take a good amount of time to define the role. Behaviorally speaking, and then to do what we call a job assessment around that role.
00:22:37:19 - 00:22:58:24
Speaker 3
So you take stakeholders in the role. You'll you know, if you have a rock star in the role that you want to clone or replicate, that's ideal. We would use that as a benchmark. And then we take stakeholders who have visibility in that role or have some kind of stake in it. Right. And we say, okay, we'll have you fill out what you feel this role needs individually.
00:22:58:51 - 00:23:22:49
Speaker 3
I'm going to take all the data that we compile for what you think the role would need or the person in the role would need to be successful. We're going to reconcile all those differences. And if we're going to create a job target for you to hire against just by doing that, it makes it forces everybody to get very clear on what the role needs, where the role is today and where it's going to go, and then that behavioral objective data to hire again.
00:23:22:49 - 00:23:54:32
Speaker 3
So it's not these feelings or emotions. It's like no active data. We've we've taken a lot of time to define what success is going to be in the role of who would be successful in the role. And once you add that layer of objective data, your batting average goes up instantaneously to the point of I would I would blindly bet on the data and the culture fit so that, you know, matching of values and in believing in the mission, like that's the culture piece.
00:23:54:46 - 00:24:06:25
Speaker 3
But then the behavioral data, those too I'll take that all day over experience and resumé and briefcase and all of that and if I had to blindly bet on it, I would 100% bet on the data.
00:24:08:04 - 00:24:36:19
Speaker 2
Love it so deep you wait. Okay, so like you've got within the company and let's just say you've got the sales manager right in. They're hiring. They want to hire their first salesperson. You got the owner there, Maybe you got some other executives in the business, right? And do you weight differently what the opinion of that role and responsibilities should be and then the results of it, You weight it differently depending on who is answering those questions?
00:24:36:59 - 00:24:40:01
Speaker 2
Or is it like your come up with an even keel type method?
00:24:40:44 - 00:25:05:07
Speaker 3
So you could if you want to, you know, let's say with the owner, really the process is they're going to fill it out individually. We jump on a call or meet in person and we talk it out. Right. Okay. Oftentimes, if you have five people, fill it out. You're going to get three different directions and answers. Right. So if and that's more often than not that they're not on the same page.
00:25:05:22 - 00:25:27:37
Speaker 3
So now imagine hiring somebody and having three different expectations that person set up to fail. You know what I mean? So it forces everyone to get on the same page. And actually, that process is the actual goal, right? The job target is the result of it, but the process is getting on the same page and having an objective tool to be able to use to do it.
00:25:28:12 - 00:25:45:27
Speaker 2
And that way when they come to the company like everybody is giving them the same answers, like you need to focus on this, your results need to be X, Y and Z. And so your focus needs to be versus coming into companies like, I know you can do some admin stuff, you can do some research over here, some prospecting, you know what I mean?
00:25:45:27 - 00:26:11:15
Speaker 2
Like, of course the CFO wants to squeeze as much revenue as they can out of you and have you handle everything right. But when you decide that directed before they come in and everybody has that right in front of them, like, hey, this is the scope of work essentially. And then the control of actions and the results that we're after and everybody's on that same page, you know, that's that's exactly what you do when you build a sales program.
00:26:11:27 - 00:26:24:03
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? Like, that's the example of that. So what have you done? Can you give us maybe one test case where you've done this for a client and they've had an experience through this?
00:26:24:59 - 00:27:09:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, there's many different fields, right, All the way from nursing homes to grocery stores, but in a sales example, to kind of keep it here. I think the number one thing that we've seen is two scenarios. One, we talked about it a little bit. It's taking your top producer, you top individual contributor, and then the manager, which if you haven't done a behavioral job target for the manager versus let's call it an outside sales role, you're not 100% certain that those roles, behaviorally speaking, have the same kind of needs, right, of the type of person that would be successful in it.
00:27:09:48 - 00:27:41:22
Speaker 3
So we see that a lot where we can kind of reverse engineer and diagnose some performance problems perspective. Then of course all sales organizations are the same and then all sales positions aren't the same. You have, you know, hunters and basically, you know, like I call it whale hunters, like people that have a higher tolerance for risk, they much more likely and much more appreciate an unlimited ceiling of earning, but they're willing to risk any kind of safety and security for that.
00:27:41:45 - 00:28:06:10
Speaker 3
People are are either wired for that or they are not. And we can easily determine that through the assessments that we do. Right. So you start to look at some of these, you know, commission based roles that are, you know, let's face it, when you're in the field, you're kind of on an island. So you need a different kind of support system.
00:28:06:10 - 00:28:37:24
Speaker 3
You have to also be very autonomous and very independent and all of that self-motivated, self-motivated versus somebody who doesn't tolerate risk as well. And maybe they like doing more repetitive things every day. They have a bit more safety and security. They don't care as much about the unlimited feeling of earning. They might say, Hey, I'd much rather be guaranteed 100 grand versus the opportunity to make 500 grand with no no salary or no draw.
00:28:37:37 - 00:29:03:21
Speaker 3
Right. So those two people are very different as well. Looking at Lincoln Farmer, Relationship Builder, Cultivator versus Hunter in sales organizations in the beginning don't often think about that because everybody has to do everything in their game and it makes sense. But eventually you have to start looking at employee turnover and burning people out and saying, How much is that actually costing us?
00:29:03:45 - 00:29:22:03
Speaker 3
Whether it's tangible or intangible, It's like interviewing people, recruiting people, training, onboarding, ramping them up. And you have to look at, okay, well, how do I how do I mitigate that? How do I minimize the turnover? How do I keep people in their positions long enough and then make sure they're actually wired for the role?
00:29:23:43 - 00:29:46:04
Speaker 2
Now, that makes a lot of sense. And honestly, those profiles that you kind of walking through just by themselves could really help sales organizations and just business owners target their next hire. You know what I mean? Especially when it comes to sales and understanding, you know? All right, what's your history? Are you simply, like you said, hunter gatherer bringing in the business and then somebody else manages it from there?
00:29:46:04 - 00:30:16:39
Speaker 2
Because that's what happens a lot is you have that one salesperson that goes out, hunt for the business, brings it in, and then they also have that salesperson doing the count. Management that they have is doing some fulfillment too. On top of that. And like you said, burnout happens, right? So when they split those roles, understanding the personality profiles for each and then targeting them and then hiring for them, you know, it just, it reminds me of seller and, you know, you have salespeople that will die on the sort of I'm the setter, I'm the closer and then I'm the account management, too.
00:30:17:02 - 00:30:36:57
Speaker 2
And no, all you have now is a job where you can't scale, you know, any of those positions right? And so, you know, what it's turned into is the center and all they do is bring in the leads, set the appointments, closure goes in and closes the appointments, and then you have the project manager that manages the account from inception to turning the power on, essentially.
00:30:37:15 - 00:30:57:10
Speaker 2
And so I think a business like that is set to scale and it has three different profile types that it's hiring for. You know, I'm saying one of them has nothing to do with sales and everything to do with project management, you know, which is a whole nother profile you should be hiring for. But expecting one person to do all three of those things is just it.
00:30:57:45 - 00:31:18:30
Speaker 2
It works in the beginning because you have to, right? You know, it's like, I can't hire three people and support them in this role in the beginning. And it's typically the owner doing all of that. Right. But, you know, you can start hiring for that. That next role, which typically is the project manager and then it's the setter and then eventually it's the whole sales team or them.
00:31:18:32 - 00:31:19:58
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. You know, the.
00:31:19:58 - 00:31:21:03
Speaker 2
Sales flow, I should say.
00:31:21:25 - 00:31:24:34
Speaker 3
You've nailed it and that's huge. So you're closer.
00:31:24:34 - 00:31:27:18
Speaker 2
Predictive index I had. What's that?
00:31:27:54 - 00:31:43:10
Speaker 3
I was going to say, you can't take your best closer out of what they do, Right. Well, and throw them into a cult management role because now they're doing nothing. Well, exactly. Well, and they're not, you know, kind of in their power of closing the loop. Plus handcuff them. Right.
00:31:44:18 - 00:31:57:39
Speaker 2
So what is the what is your service actually looked like with the predictive index? What's the process for that? And then what does a business owner or a sales manager need to invest in order to take advantage of that?
00:31:58:15 - 00:32:23:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, so I use two different assessments. One is the Colby, one is a predictive index. A little fun fact for everybody. If you Google assessments is over 800 out there in the market today, but only a handful are actually scientifically validated for prior in selection. Predictive Index and Colby are two of the handful. They measure very different things, but they solve for the same problems.
00:32:24:16 - 00:32:59:58
Speaker 3
So in order to engage with either one predictive index, I kind of like because it's more of a knowledge transfer, an unlimited use for the software. So let's say a company of 50 employees or so wants to engage with me to solve a turnover problem or hiring problem. We'll talk with each other and do a needs analysis. Discovery calls, figure out what the best approach would be, and then they end up doing the unlimited use annual client agreement through US and predictive index.
00:32:59:58 - 00:33:25:01
Speaker 3
Let's say if we and and then we do an I do a knowledge transfer training with their leadership team, whether it's the owner or if they have an executive team or something that resembles that as well as any kind of like frontline managers. And I train them on this, I train them how to use it on a day to day basis so they have access on a live basis to be able to use this to solve the problems as they're going.
00:33:25:35 - 00:33:45:57
Speaker 3
And then I sit on the bench, right? I'm kind of like shotgun in the car. They call and text me, email me, and however they want to get all to me, I'm I make myself very available to be able to help them solve their kind of people problems or create job targets or even just serve as a mediator to talk through some of the job part of the process I talked about a little bit.
00:33:46:48 - 00:33:59:27
Speaker 2
Gotcha. And then so you've got the 50 person company. What about someone that's like, you know, is this scalable down to someone that just wants to hire their first sales manager or their first sales role?
00:33:59:27 - 00:34:44:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, again, that's where the Koby index comes in, engaging with slightly different things, right? So predictive index measures, motivating drives, and then the needs and behaviors that you can predict of those motivating drives. So very you need very repeatable, measurable, repeatable. Over time it's stable as well. Colby is also very stable over time. It's who you are, how your hard wired literally change over time a little more scalable because you can just do one person, whether it's an individual you're coaching or a job target for just one person, it's more per drink at that point from way less money from an engagement standpoint, a little less scalable, but not terrible.
00:34:44:09 - 00:34:57:41
Speaker 3
But it still solves for the same problems holding measure. I'm sorry, Basically how you uniquely solve problems while striving and then free to be yourself.
00:34:58:30 - 00:35:11:13
Speaker 2
Okay, very cool. So I could hire for a sales manager and then turn around and hire for like a project management person and then turn around and and hire for the the person. And it's, you know, more of a per hire basis.
00:35:11:36 - 00:35:17:11
Speaker 3
Correct? Correct. Whereas the other one's limited use and you know, you get as many hires as you want.
00:35:18:36 - 00:35:32:27
Speaker 2
Okay. So what's next for for your consulting company on the predictive index standpoint? Like are you guys looking for certain opportunities or is it more just scaling it slowly over time?
00:35:32:27 - 00:35:58:24
Speaker 3
Yeah, from from a business standpoint, for myself, we're growing. I'm a solopreneur with VA and then I enlist other master's trainers. If I have like larger groups that they have an executive team in frontline managers, a third somebody to help me facilitate that in coverage standpoint. But I travel all over the country. I do a lot of virtual as well.
00:35:59:02 - 00:36:27:37
Speaker 3
So we're going really my my sweet spot of companies that I help Predictive index is 50 employees all the way to a thousand. And then Colby is everything from two employees all the way to 50. And that's kind of how I separate, compartmentalize and use them. I'm now I'm publishing my book Shameless Plug. Now, how In Spite of Yourself, it's a The Ultimate Guide to leadership through self-awareness fun story.
00:36:27:37 - 00:36:54:14
Speaker 3
It's like, you know, super long, but it's all about leadership. It's all about self-awareness. And it's told through kind of like a fun story. A lot of leadership lessons embedded in that. But I'm excited for that because it really drives home a lot of what I talk about on a day to day basis with clients and what I've seen, but I've kind of thrown in, throwing it into a story line so you can follow along and resonate with it, right?
00:36:54:50 - 00:37:10:46
Speaker 2
Yeah, but that's the biggest challenge I'm going to have with writing my book is absence of tactical like systems and processes. Dude. And that's for boring. So whatever, like it like I was on that sales call earlier and, and the guy is like, Hey, man, like, I'm going to sign up. You don't have to go through all of this.
00:37:10:58 - 00:37:15:05
Speaker 2
I'm like, I want to show you what I'm delivering. Do you like, I work hard on this, You know, like.
00:37:15:21 - 00:37:15:50
Speaker 3
Right, Look at.
00:37:16:09 - 00:37:17:47
Speaker 2
My toy, you know, like show.
00:37:18:37 - 00:37:19:48
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's like.
00:37:19:48 - 00:37:26:13
Speaker 2
You, but it's boring for other people, you know? They're like, I understand. I need all this crap. Just send me the invoice and let's get rolling, you know?
00:37:26:13 - 00:37:28:31
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I'll take those, too, because.
00:37:29:00 - 00:37:41:51
Speaker 2
Yeah, No, that's awesome, man. So last question I typically ask is around legacy. You know what? What is the legacy mean to you and what legacy do you want to leave behind?
00:37:42:45 - 00:38:13:37
Speaker 3
That's a great question. You know, I think my legacy is going to be my children and the impact that they have and leave on the world. So I'm pouring everything into my children. I'm trying to lead by example with them for them, give them a great, I would say, ground work of of having a relationship with God.
00:38:15:41 - 00:38:38:33
Speaker 3
Those are things that are very important to me. I can't control what they do as they become adults or what happens to them either in life. But I make them very smart, very resilient. I want to kind of teach them how to just how to understand that, like, you know, there's this kind of like box and that's like the game of life, right?
00:38:38:34 - 00:39:02:47
Speaker 3
And we got to, like, jump into that box to play the game. But I want them to see out. I want them to zoom out and recognize that that is just a box and I want them to kind of live outside of that box and pop into the box when they need to. But I want to just give them a different view of of of everything, what success looks like, what a good person looks like, being a good Christian.
00:39:02:47 - 00:39:27:07
Speaker 3
That's like all of that stuff. And then I guess beyond that, my company, of course, I think just leading by example and helping people understand their unique strengths and hopefully through that, creating better leaders and then also minimizing people from having depression and burning out and kind of maybe being in the wrong seat. Right. Without scanning that or recognizing it.
00:39:28:19 - 00:40:00:39
Speaker 3
And then of course, you mentioned land. Yeah, Yeah. I'm looking at ten acres of land right here in Savannah that I'm going to pull the trigger on literally, I think this week or next week it'll legacy land, right? You know, we'll build our homestead on that and then we'll have room for our daughters if they choose to raise their families and build houses on the same land or at a very minimum cost, that would be valuable down the road like ten, right?
00:40:01:06 - 00:40:04:26
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. And then they'll have that home they can always go to.
00:40:04:49 - 00:40:06:05
Speaker 3
That's right. That's right.
00:40:06:50 - 00:40:38:42
Speaker 2
Absolutely. No, I love it. I love how hyper focused you are on the kids, though. I mean, your your answer was 85%. Your kids. Right. Everything else was kind of like, yeah, my business, of course. And then. But you went right back to what you're going to leave behind for your kids from the land aspect. So I think when we hyperfocus on that, I think there's no way we can't actually win when it comes to legacy, you know, I'm saying versus, you know, when the answer is typically white instead of deep, you know, it's very white.
00:40:38:42 - 00:41:04:28
Speaker 2
Like I want to impact, you know, a million people, 2 million people. This whole deal, it become you know, I worry about the downside of that, which is losing focus on those which are closest to you. You know, I'm saying so love the answer. If if anybody is interested in the services that you provide or just wants to follow you, I know you you're an intermittent fasting freaking genius, you know, So you came and talked to us about that.
00:41:04:28 - 00:41:15:12
Speaker 2
So, you know, everything there is to know about intermittent fasting, homeschooling, higher hiring, leadership, you know, So you're definitely somebody resourceful to follow. Where do they where do they follow you? Yeah.
00:41:15:45 - 00:41:38:31
Speaker 3
So they can follow me on Facebook. Of course. Direct message me whenever you want. I'm happy to give you that. Predicted the next assessment and walk you through your results and that stuff is super important. And then LinkedIn, of course, you can find me on LinkedIn expressing the genius, but income is all my business stuff if you want to look there.
00:41:38:43 - 00:41:47:09
Speaker 3
And of course the book that's coming out, I will I will let everybody know as soon as that publishes next month, I hope at the very latest.
00:41:47:36 - 00:41:55:44
Speaker 2
Fantastic. Yeah. And shoot us a link as well. Or you can drop it in your podcast folder and we'll definitely get the notes updated with that link.
00:41:56:09 - 00:41:58:10
Speaker 3
Okay, Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:41:59:16 - 00:42:01:17
Speaker 2
Absolutely, brother. Well, thank you for coming on the show.
00:42:02:07 - 00:42:03:41
Speaker 3
All right. Thanks, Doug. I appreciate you.
00:42:04:19 - 00:42:11:51
Speaker 2
All right. Let's get building.
00:42:11:51 - 00:42:35:34
Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Building Great Sales Teams podcast. We really do appreciate it. As you know, we believe that great leaders build great teams. How do you become a great leader? You learn from the greats. Join us at the Million Dollar Mastermind put on by Ryan Stillman in Frisco, Texas, and learn everything that you need to learn to be that great leader.
00:42:36:05 - 00:42:56:15
Speaker 1
The link will be in the description below. As always, we ask that you like, share and subscribe wherever you consume podcasts so you can stay up to date with the building. Great sales teams Podcasts. Let's get building.